We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
#21
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 02:26 AM)Audreygilligan Wrote: I’m curious, too. My understanding of the post was that the unscheduled books would be moved to free reads. Maybe it’s just not been updated yet?

The announcement said "some" have been moved to free reads:

A few more important notes:
-Some of the books on the now “old” list in these categories are still included in the “new” list as “optional” or as “free reads” in other years.
-For those of you who wish to still use the old booklists and schedules, they will remain available on our website through the 2023-2024 school year.
-And Always, Always, ALWAYS, be sure to check our Footnotes.
MaryEllen
Mom of 2 AO Graduates
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#22
Announcements/We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 02:07 AM)Cameron Wrote: Thank you for all of the hard work you put into cultivating this curriculum. It has blessed our family beyond measure. As I've examined the new changes, I see many free reads moved to a scheduled book, many books moved up or down a year, others that were read in their entirety and are now read in part, some new missionary stories (yay!), and some formerly scheduled books that are now in the optional category. My question is about the devotional books that seem to be dropped altogether. I no longer see the following books in any form (ie as a free read, scheduled or moved)

* The Pursuit of God (Tozer)
*A Ready Defense (McDowell)
*Desiring God (Piper)
*Evidence That Demands a Verdict ( McDowell)
*The God Who is There (Schaeffer)
*Knowing God (Packer)
*The Attributes of God (Pink)
*The Holiness of God (Sproul)
*The Mind of the Maker (Sayers)
* The Pleasures of God ( Piper)

I would love to understand a bit more of why all these books, which are considered classics, are no longer being scheduled or offered even as options? 
I absolutely love the addition of missionary biographies and I understand you have to cut some books as you add others. I understand worldview options being dropped as more relevant books become available.  My sincere question is to understand the move away from all of the titles listed above. We adore AO and look forward to the new additions, but my heart does hurt a bit thinking of all these lovely books no longer having a place in the curriculum. I would love to understand more about the dropping of these books if that's something you can share. Thank you and again we are very thankful for this curriculum and your work in putting it together and maintaining it.


I too would like to understand why these were dropped in order to decide if I want to make these changes to our schedule or stick with the old schedule or find other book suggestions that are modern yet fit with our family’s convictions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#23
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
A general response would be that we are not "devaluing" these books in themselves, but they no longer seemed to be the best available choices for this curriculum or for the specific years for which they had been used. For example, many AO students even twenty years ago had trouble understanding Francis Schaeffer's examples of mid-century film and literature, and  the more so now. We chose Saving Leonardo because it refers directly to Schaeffer's work, while using more current cultural examples. 

We have attempted to provide a balance of old/new, difficult/easier, long/short books, and have suggested options where possible, but we have also tried not to suggest so many books that the lists become unwieldy.
Anne White, Southern Ontario
My book page at Amazon
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#24
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
You know what would bless the AO community? What if everyone who has read all of these books (besides the Advisory and Auxiliary, of course, cuz they’re already working on the next project which will make life easier on us! Squee!) got together and just started writing reviews of all these books on our blogs? Or better yet, we could just post a thread on each of the books and discuss them. That could be fun.

The only other way to know which book is perfect for our individual homeschools would be to individually research every single book, prior to assigning them. We could read reviews on Goodreads or talk to friends and family. It sounds overwhelming but surely we could get this done as a group.

Or we could pray and rely on the Holy Spirit in our own lives and churches to guide us as individuals with entirely separate needs..

What if everyone posted a thorough and objective summary of the books that have been taken out or added or both? Everyone could get their opinions out that way. The schedules probably won’t change again for at least another 7-10 years but we could all talk and discuss and that would be fun. Then we’d be better equipped to understand the books.

So how about that? Anyone who would like to write a review in the Book Discussion area about ANY of these books is welcome to! You can even start a formal, planned book discussion on ANY of those books! Even the controversial ones! That might help to educate the entire community.

When grandma invites you to a Christmas feast you don’t make her defend her side dishes or criticize her way of cooking the turkey. Grandma has been working on this turkey for 14 months and has suffered the loss of her two closest friends who used to help her cook the turkey.

Our job is to smile and eat or smile and fill up our plate with the things we like best. It’s not grandma’s job to explain her choices. If you don’t like it, you can tell the cousins out on the back porch. It’s cold out there but we won’t ever lock you out. We love you. Lol. Now goodness gracious. Grandma is busy. She’s tired. She needs a vacation.

I’m pretty sure we’re all stuck printing new schedules and discussing our personal reasons for books. Good thing I love printing!
Katie
Laughing fellow rover in Spain, stumbling towards Christ with a hubby and two boys that are more precious than gold. https://tetragon.substack.com/
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#25
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 04:30 AM)Primeperiwinkle Wrote: You know what would bless the AO community? What if everyone who has read all of these books (besides the Advisory and Auxiliary, of course, cuz they’re already working on the next project which will make life easier on us! Squee!) got together and just started writing reviews of all these books on our blogs? Or better yet, we could just post a thread on each of the books and discuss them. That could be fun.

The only other way to know which book is perfect for our individual homeschools would be to individually research every single book, prior to assigning them. We could read reviews on Goodreads or talk to friends and family. It sounds overwhelming but surely we could get this done as a group.

Or we could pray and rely on the Holy Spirit in our own lives and churches to guide us as individuals with entirely separate needs..

What if everyone posted a thorough and objective summary of the books that have been taken out or added or both? Everyone could get their opinions out that way. The schedules probably won’t change again for at least another 7-10 years but we could all talk and discuss and that would be fun. Then we’d be better equipped to understand the books.

So how about that? Anyone who would like to write a review in the Book Discussion area about ANY of these books is welcome to! You can even start a formal, planned book discussion on ANY of those books! Even the controversial ones! That might help to educate the entire community.

When grandma invites you to a Christmas feast you don’t make her defend her side dishes or criticize her way of cooking the turkey. Grandma has been working on this turkey for 14 months and has suffered the loss of her two closest friends who used to help her cook the turkey.

Our job is to smile and eat or smile and fill up our plate with the things we like best. It’s not grandma’s job to explain her choices. If you don’t like it, you can tell the cousins out on the back porch. It’s cold out there but we won’t ever lock you out. We love you. Lol. Now goodness gracious. Grandma is busy. She’s tired. She needs a vacation.

I’m pretty sure we’re all stuck printing new schedules and discussing our personal reasons for books. Good thing I love printing!

I hope those of us genuinely asking questions to help us understand the reasoning we don’t see behind the book changes aren’t coming across as those who wish to stand on the back porch and pitch a fit about why we don’t like the new books chosen. 

For me personally, I was just curious as to the reason for removing them entirely. I’ve read JHP’s Holiness of God and while I haven’t read the removed Attributes of God, I can infer from JHP’s book content and the Attributes title that the reason is the content covered is very similar but with examples from the modern era to help readers better understand that attribute/aspect of God’s character. I understand a complete substitution in that case because the topic is not being removed, just shifted. I just wondered if the rationale behind the removal of books from the list entirely was along similar lines or not. I wasn’t complaining or intending to question the Advisory’s motives or process, just wanting to understand. 

If I want to re-create grandma’s Turkey, I’d love to know how she cooked it. I want instructions along with ingredients. ;)
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#26
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 06:00 AM)Audreygilligan Wrote: I hope those of us genuinely asking questions to help us understand the reasoning we don’t see behind the book changes aren’t coming across as those who wish to stand on the back porch and pitch a fit about why we don’t like the new books chosen. 

For me personally, I was just curious as to the reason for removing them entirely. I’ve read JHP’s Holiness of God and while I haven’t read the removed Attributes of God, I can infer from JHP’s book content and the Attributes title that the reason is the content covered is very similar but with examples from the modern era to help readers better understand that attribute/aspect of God’s character. I understand a complete substitution in that case because the topic is not being removed, just shifted. I just wondered if the rationale behind the removal of books from the list entirely was along similar lines or not. I wasn’t complaining or intending to question the Advisory’s motives or process, just wanting to understand. 

If I want to re-create grandma’s Turkey, I’d love to know how she cooked it. I want instructions along with ingredients. ;)

Everybody’s using the same cookbook. AO offers the volumes for free on their site. Grandma shows everybody two versions even.. easy and hard. The better idea for everyone would be to pick a book and start diving into it instead of trying to get grandma, who just spent all this time working on this, to detail out every private conversation they’ve had concerning every book. The time that would take is a pretty big ask… and that’s not going to accomplish anything. We’re going to eat. You’re welcome to sit and ask people questions but seriously.. they shouldn’t have to explain 14 months or two years of their inner debates to a newbie. No offense.

We all have to figure out these answers for ourselves anyway. The Advisory has changed their recommendations. It’s our job to decide and follow, or not. Seriously, there’s nothing stopping anyone from opening up a thread on Mind of the Maker or the Gene Veith book for instance and sharing their review of it. Maybe that will help people to pick.
Katie
Laughing fellow rover in Spain, stumbling towards Christ with a hubby and two boys that are more precious than gold. https://tetragon.substack.com/
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#27
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 06:00 AM)Audreygilligan Wrote: I hope those of us genuinely asking questions to help us understand the reasoning we don’t see behind the book changes aren’t coming across as those who wish to stand on the back porch and pitch a fit about why we don’t like the new books chosen. 

For me personally, I was just curious as to the reason for removing them entirely. I’ve read JHP’s Holiness of God and while I haven’t read the removed Attributes of God, I can infer from JHP’s book content and the Attributes title that the reason is the content covered is very similar but with examples from the modern era to help readers better understand that attribute/aspect of God’s character. I understand a complete substitution in that case because the topic is not being removed, just shifted. I just wondered if the rationale behind the removal of books from the list entirely was along similar lines or not. I wasn’t complaining or intending to question the Advisory’s motives or process, just wanting to understand. 

If I want to re-create grandma’s Turkey, I’d love to know how she cooked it. I want instructions along with ingredients. ;)

I think your questions are great. I think it is fine to ask and the community encourages asking questions. There are always some people that ask with a very entitled tone. I do not think you did that. I am looking forward to hearing the why behind a lot of the changes, I think it often the judgement and lack of thank you and answer me right now or else kind of sound that very similar questions are mixed with. I think the above response was more trying to share the sentiment in general that the attitude often does not take into account that the AO advisory and auxiliary just finished a long project with a lot of hours of reading and discussing and then the community asks them to say a lot of "why's" Asking the questions is fine. You had a great tone and were grateful for all the work that just got finished. There are no comments in this thread that are disrespectful, but there are other areas where disrespect has been thrown, and that has some of us on edge, at least that is how I view this.
Wife to my highschool archenemy and mother of 4, AO Year 9, Year 7, Year 4, Year 0.  "Mothers work wonders once they are convinced that wonders are demanded of them." Charlotte Mason
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#28
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 06:24 AM)Primeperiwinkle Wrote: Everybody’s using the same cookbook. AO offers the volumes for free on their site. Grandma shows everybody two versions even.. easy and hard.  The better idea for everyone would be to pick a book and start diving into it instead of trying to get grandma, who just spent all this time working on this, to detail out every private conversation they’ve had concerning every book. The time that would take is a pretty big ask… and that’s not going to accomplish anything. We’re going to eat. You’re welcome to sit and ask people questions but seriously.. they shouldn’t have to explain 14 months or two years of their inner debates to a newbie. No offense.

We all have to figure out these answers for ourselves anyway. The Advisory has changed their recommendations. It’s our job to decide and follow, or not. Seriously, there’s nothing stopping anyone from opening up a thread on Mind of the Maker or the Gene Veith book for instance and sharing their review of it. Maybe that will help people to pick.

I laud your intention to defend the Advisory. Again, I am not questioning their decisions. I am completely fine with the changes to the book list and have every intention of following it with the exception of Y7 - only because I already have those books purchased for this next school year. 

I came to the forum to read and ask questions because the forum is the place for further discussion, for delving deeper and seeking the wisdom of others on the same path and sometimes even hearing from the Advisory members themselves. I am not demanding that they satisfy my curiosity. I am not refusing to use the curriculum as given. I am not demanding or even requesting transcripts of all conversations that went into these decisions. I was simply curious, like another user, if there was an explanation available for why the books aren’t scheduled somewhere else. As I attempted to explain in my last post, a “the new books cover the same topics from updated/more modern perspectives or with updated/more modern examples” was the sort of simple explanation I was curious to find if it exists. If the answer is, “it was a laborious process that would be too time intensive to explain,” that’s fine also.

This newbie to the forum isn’t a newbie to AO or even a newbie to AO schedule changes. I’m not nervous. I’m curious. Perhaps the cookbook was a bad example choice. Maybe grandma’s insight, tips, and tricks for her turkey fits better - which is what I thought the forum existed for. 

I think your idea for a book review thread is brilliant and I hope it happens. I would love to read through others’ perspectives on the books and offer my own.
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#29
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
Thank you so much ladies for all your labor!
Lately I've been listening to Mrs Elliot and I'm thrilled to find those stories in these new lists. They're just a God sent!
God bless you always ♡
Marina
Blessed with four little ones (19, 15, 12 & 7yo
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#30
Announcements/RE: We’ve Made Some Changes To Parts of Years 7-12!
(03-29-2023, 06:54 AM)Audreygilligan Wrote: I laud your intention to defend the Advisory. Again, I am not questioning their decisions. I am completely fine with the changes to the book list and have every intention of following it with the exception of Y7 - only because I already have those books purchased for this next school year. 

I came to the forum to read and ask questions because the forum is the place for further discussion, for delving deeper and seeking the wisdom of others on the same path and sometimes even hearing from the Advisory members themselves. I am not demanding that they satisfy my curiosity. I am not refusing to use the curriculum as given. I am not demanding or even requesting transcripts of all conversations that went into these decisions. I was simply curious, like another user, if there was an explanation available for why the books aren’t scheduled somewhere else. As I attempted to explain in my last post, a “the new books cover the same topics from updated/more modern perspectives or with updated/more modern examples” was the sort of simple explanation I was curious to find if it exists. If the answer is, “it was a laborious process that would be too time intensive to explain,” that’s fine also.

This newbie to the forum isn’t a newbie to AO or even a newbie to AO schedule changes. I’m not nervous. I’m curious. Perhaps the cookbook was a bad example choice. Maybe grandma’s insight, tips, and tricks for her turkey fits better - which is what I thought the forum existed for. 

I think your idea for a book review thread is brilliant and I hope it happens. I would love to read through others’ perspectives on the books and offer my own.

Ahhhh ok now I’m understanding better. I don’t really want to defend the Advisory I just feel like their time is valuable? And it seems like an unreasonable request when in the announcement they made sure to explain why they did stuff. The old books were outdated for the times and the goals. New books were better. Can’t it be that simple?

If they start explaining one book now, they’ll have to stop to explain them all. They’re driving the bus. They get to pick where it goes. I guarantee you there’s fifty reasons for every choice. Page count, value, living book, vocabulary, is the idea mentioned or covered somewhere else, timeline, the crossover of seeding ideas, is it a pro or con book which might shed more light into the same subject but from a different angle, what’s the history, the cost, the ability to create discussion, the ability to stick with a teen during touch hormone years, where the book can be delivered, how easily ordered, who was the author and where do they fall on the diversity, Christianity, educational level.., etc, etc.

Every single book is a battle. Every single one could be wrong. Every single book is argued about, passionately. Every single page is dissected.

If we aren’t willing to do that for one book why in the world is it so easy to ask them to share their vulnerable hearts and decisions? I appreciate you wanting to know. I want to know! We all want to know.

I want to sit at their feet and hear them discuss it all. But that’s not how this works.
Katie
Laughing fellow rover in Spain, stumbling towards Christ with a hubby and two boys that are more precious than gold. https://tetragon.substack.com/
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